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BerndD

162 post(s)
#20-Oct-16 10:45

Just a thought, but would like to know if there is any interest among Manifold GIS users on intending a user Meeting sometime next spring?

Sharing ideas, Projects and maybe doing some Course work as well.

All Input such as time, Topics and Locations is highly appreciated.

Cheers


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tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#20-Oct-16 22:12

Is it best to try to coincide with a public holiday--or to avoid them? I think it depends on your family circumstances (and religious observance if any).

But just as a first suggestion, Western Easter, Orthodox Easter and Hebrew Passover all overlap in 2017. How about April 15 to 17? Early northern spring/southern autumn.

The main focus should of course(!) be the new SQL--and migrating forwards from Manifold 8 SQL. With workshops based on worked cases.

rockland
97 post(s)
#26-Oct-16 16:29

definitely interested in a users meeting

BerndD

162 post(s)
#27-Oct-16 00:50

Any preferences regarding the location?

My favorite ones are 1) East Coast USA and 2) Germany.


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tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#27-Oct-16 01:09

I'll add 3) Hong Kong and 4) Nantes (France).

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#27-Oct-16 09:42

I'm surprised nobody has suggested Moscow. This winter is forecast to be exceptionally cold, which is very good: below -25 the ice stops being slippery. :-)

Our beloved Hong Kong is wonderful, a true star, but it is very far away from most English speaking Manifold users. It can be extremely expensive if you are not a local.

I suggest several characteristics to consider:

1) Cheap air fares: If a city has RyanAir or EasyJet that provides air connections to dozens of countries for less than the cost of taxi fare from JFK into New York. Those airports tend to be in secondary cities but many are close to national capitals for world travel, some of which have great fares. Paris, for example, has good fares given the tourist trade, especially in the off season, while the Orly secondary airport near Paris provides cheap European connections.

2) Off season or secondary city for low cost hotels: No point in spending 300 euros a night when you can get better living and a free breakfast for 100 euros a night.

3) OK for foreigners: It would be nice if Manifold personnel could attend, especially engineering. That excludes the US due to insane US tax law. The US applies all US taxes and tax regulations to the worldwide operations of even 100% foreign entities if their people conduct any business whatsoever while they are physically in the US. So, visit Disneyland with your family, fine. Tell somebody about your product while you wait hours in line and you've just cost your company a few million in compliance costs. Crazy but true.

4) Appealing to visit: If you are going to travel somewhere, may as well pick a place that has some appeal besides the business planned.

Based on all the above I'd suggest somewhere in Europe, perhaps France or Germany since they have the best transport links. A weak euro makes them a bargain for Americans and Brits as well.

Visas to the UK are a pain right now but either France or Germany are easy. I'd suggest somewhere in France during the off season to exploit the huge tourist infrastructure that gets really cheap off season. If you don't mind a chance of rain it is still wonderful, glorious France.

I'm not sure about Nantes... I would suggest a place closer to Paris, ideally reachable by train from CDG. Massy is on the TGV line from CDG and cheap taxi distance from Orly but it is a miserable suburb with negative charm factor. Versailles has more charm and easier to get into Paris. Very pleasant would be a charming smaller town like Chartres, a real jewel and easy to get to by train from the Paris airport with a good selection of reasonable hotels suitable for business in the center. But it is a small and quiet place compared to Paris so anyone wanting to combine the trip with tourism (besides the famous cathedral in Chartres) could plan a couple of days stay in Paris.

Paris itself is superb, of course, but even in the off season the cost of rooms, meeting space, etc., is much higher than just outside of Paris.

By the way, when planning travel it is interesting to look at the world's topology not on the basis of geography but on the basis of the cost of air fares. For example, you can easily spend twice as much money on a "cheap" fare from Los Angeles to New York than I just spent on round-trip tickets from Moscow to Los Angeles ($550 round trip). When you think of it that way it can be surprising to find that Paris can be much "closer" to, say, Boston than either Chicago or LA are to Boston.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#28-Oct-16 09:19

As I re-read my posting above I got a totally "out-of-the-box" idea and found myself thinking... well... why not?

The great fare I got to LA was on Aeroflot, which has gone from 20 years ago being the worst airline in the history of the world, to what has become in modern times one of the best, a favorite of business travelers. Incredible but true.

They have the newest fleet of aircraft in the business, all Boeing or Airbus internationally, great food, extensive entertainment options and great staff. They even have better food than Air France, although Air France still has better wine. :-)

I travel a lot and I'll usually choose Aeroflot over any of the European or US airlines. Plus, Aeroflot often has better pricing. They're allied with many other airlines so combo tickets can have good prices as well.

That's what got me thinking... If people are going to be flying from the US to Europe or from Australia and New Zealand to Europe, may as well fly to Moscow on Aeroflot if on a fare basis Moscow is "closer," that is less costly. Auckland to Moscow is usually only around $1000 round trip (China Air), hard to beat.

I grant that in season Moscow can be expensive. But off season it's actually quite reasonable, no worse than, say, Philadelphia. Moscow also has the advantage that once you land you can take a cheap, dedicated train (runs every 30 minutes) for $9 from the airport into town, and then you are on the magic carpet of the best subway system in the world, with all signs and stops conveniently written in English.

Moscow is not like the old days when foreigners told each other to bring toilet paper. It is now very much like any big Western city in that you stay at a Hyatt or Holiday Inn, get your coffee at Starbucks, pick up a sandwich at Paul or (God forbid...) KFC or McDonalds, and you can shop to buy anything 24 hours a day with most places open 7 days a week. But it still has enough local character to know you are not in Kansas anymore. You take a walk onto Red Square, look around and think "Wow... amazing!" in a way you would never think visiting Philadelphia.

You do have to get a visa to visit but all you need is a tourist visa, easy to do.

Just a thought...

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#28-Oct-16 09:28

That would be so brilliant, I didn't suggest Moscow myself (typed but then deleted) only because I thought it would be way too good.

When is the best time of year? Bearing in mind prices, white snow, slush.

mdsumner


4,260 post(s)
#28-Oct-16 10:09

This is real applied GIS in action, Manifold recursing into community decision support. Can we build a multidimensional Doodle to choose an optimal meeting place? (Or would it always pick Moscow?)


https://github.com/mdsumner

adamw


10,447 post(s)
#28-Oct-16 13:04

(It would always pick Germany simply because of the beer.)

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#28-Oct-16 13:36

When is the best time of year? Bearing in mind prices, white snow, slush.

Ahhh....well, asking around about the above I got the universal reaction "Moscow is a really bad idea..." followed by a lengthy list of reasons why nobody in their right minds schedules international meetings in Moscow during the off season. I have to admit I agree.

Here is what I heard:

1. Our "off season" weather discourages visitors. Normally it is only around -15 to -20 but it can drop to -30 or more during a cold snap. Locals are ready for that but visitors do not usually have arctic parkas hanging in their closets to bring just in case it isn't a mere -18 or -20.

2. To avoid the risk of seriously awful weather it is best to wait until May, but then to avoid the May 1 to May 10 holiday season when all the hotels are booked you're into mid-May and then Moscow is insanely expensive.

3. Aeroflot is great for long range but there is no Ryan Air or EasyJet so many attendees from Europe would have much higher travel costs. People in Europe who could easily drive to a meeting in France or Germany would have far higher costs.

4. If the meeting is in Europe nobody will need a visa but if it is in Moscow everybody will have to get a visa. Visa costs are higher than I thought. On a tourist package trip the operator does that for you, but for a private individual it will be at least $200 or euros ($160 for the visa plus a fee for the service bureau to get it for you).

5. Moscow is safer than most foreigners think it is but still, it has a long way to go to be as safe as Europe. Contemporary geopolitics might also discourage some people from visiting. No need for such stress given that any gathering of people from many countries has enough planning complexity as it is.

Ah well... I still think everyone should find time to come to Moscow, but perhaps in the summer...

The more I think about it, the better it sounds to try for a first week in May in France. I really like the idea of a town like Chartres. It is very close to Paris and easy to get to without renting a car, big enough for hotels, services and restaurants but small enough so your time isn't eaten up by dealing with big city hassles or being stuck in traffic if you are driving from elsewhere in Europe. You can walk through the medieval town in the evening and see the best Gothic cathedral of them all.

Stop in Paris before or after the meeting if you are visiting from afar. Those who are into country tourism could rent a car for a day and drive down into the valley of the Loire about 90 minutes away. You can easily see three of the big, famous chateaux in one day, and still have time to have lunch and make a stop or two at a vineyard for wine tasting. In early May it will already be warm so you won't need more than a light jacket.

I don't know about anybody else but that has a lot more appeal to me than thinking about which of my parkas I should bring with me to Moscow... :-)

Mike Pelletier

2,122 post(s)
#28-Oct-16 15:47

Getting together with regular posters and Manifold users would be very fun and interesting. There's lots of value in getting to know you folks and swapping stories. Doing it in a beautiful place is all the better but what about doing it at or near a Manifold facility so we could meet more employees? Perhaps its best not to answer this but are the programmers scattered around the world or concentrated. At one time Carson City, Nevada, USA was a hub. It's close to Lake Tahoe and many spectacular California parks.

Okay .... I'll confess this is close to me as well and I'm very unlikely to able to swing international travel. Even though I get plenty of -30 degree weather I'd love to go to Moscow :-)

Having a meeting prior to software release would be good for influencing the product but it will be likely be a much smaller group. A meeting between release of Radian Studio and version 9 may make some sense but of course targeting a meeting to a certain point in software development may be too difficult.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#29-Oct-16 10:41

what about doing it at or near a Manifold facility so we could meet more employees?

A great idea, but then you have to travel outside the the US... :-) As mentioned in my post at #, the criterion 3)

It would be nice if Manifold personnel could attend, especially engineering. That excludes the US due to insane US tax law.

The US is the only country in the world with such a system (one reason Apple keeps 99% of its cash, over $180 billion, outside the US), but hey, we didn't design that system. As noted in

http://www.georeference.org/doc/manifold.htm#about_manifold_system.htm

Manifold has always been outside the US. Join Manifold, see the world! :-)

That's not a bad idea if you consider the topology of travel by the cost and hassle of travel and not by geography. For many people in the US if you buy smart it is cheaper and easier to fly to Paris or to Frankfurt than it is to get to non-hub locations in the US. Buy in advance and a round-trip from Denver to Paris in May is only $500.

Mike Pelletier

2,122 post(s)
#31-Oct-16 15:03

Okay that makes sense. I suppose eastern Canada might attract the USA east coast folks but France would be quite a treat.

tonyw
736 post(s)
#04-Nov-16 18:17

Western Canada for a location? Vancouver, British Columbia. Great connections to Asia and direct flights to major cities in the US otherwise good connections (our airport is YVR). Polar routes to Moscow and Europe. Weather is mild in winter warm and pleasant in summer annual averages of +4C winter, 18C avg summer with days in low 30's C. For those wishing to extend into a vacation, Vancouver is a great tourist destination itself, not far from Whistler for skiing or for hiking if meeting in the summer, we're a major cruise ship port to Alaska, Hawaii, and west coast USA. Or do a road trip to the Rocky Mountains. We're 3 hours north of Seattle, USA for anyone wanting to drive.

For meeting space we could probably team up with a relevant faculty or department at a local university. Technology and connectedness to support a meeting won't be a limiting factor. Vancouver is not huge and transit works well so getting around is relatively easy. If meeting in the summer, the universities offer inexpensive accommodation. If you have means, we have 4 and 5 star hotels too. If you are a foodie, Vancouver is a fusion of foods from around the world and inexpensive.

Other bonus, the Canadian dollar is weak against other currencies, $1 USD gets you $1.34 Canadian dollars, 1 Euro gets you $1.49 CDN and the pound gets you $1.67 CDN. Put another way, something priced $1 CDN costs 74 cents in USD. A bargain.

Disclaimer: I live in Vancouver BC.

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#28-Oct-16 23:43

The more I think about it, the better it sounds to try for a first week in May in France. I really like the idea of a town like Chartres. ...

Chartres would be great Dimitri, for all the reasons you say. Orléans might also be a good alternative?

Facilities? The Université d'Orléans is large; I see it also has some facilities in Chartres. Spring break 2017 for l'Université d'Orléans is from Monday April 17 (effectively April 14, Good Friday) to Tuesday April 21.

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#30-Oct-16 08:06

Orléans might also be a good alternative?

We should consider that. It could boil down to where facilities / lodging are most convenient. Orléans and Chartres are the same time from Paris by train, although Orléans is geographically farther, about a half-hour farther by car. Trains between the center of Paris and Chartres run every 30 minutes. Between Paris and Orléans they run every hour. In both cases travel time to the center of Paris is about an hour.

Orléans is a bigger city than Chartres, which has advantages and disadvantages. There is probably a bigger choice of facilities / hotels / restaurants but those are spread out over a bigger area. Because Orléans is a bigger city it does not have the exceptional charm of a Unesco heritage location like Chartres (the cathedral and old medieval town there are justifiably famous). But Orléans has a small but nice old quarter, it has a cathedral, albeit mostly built in the 18th and 19th centuries, and it is located on the banks of the Loire, albeit not in the center of chateau country like Tours. Joan of Arc is the famous local heroine so there are a lot of Joan statues.If you live in the area it is without doubt worth a day trip.

Chartres pops up on many lists for tourists of day trips from Paris and it is very popular with locals as well, which tells you something about the place. Tourists usually see Orléans, if at all, on their way to somewhere else in the valley of the Loire. Locals will go to Chartres for a walk or to visit the cathedral but they go to Orléans for business or to check out the new IKEA nearby. Go to Orléans, see the Joan of Arc kitsch, walk the old town, admire the Loire, sigh that the cathedral has its moments but really is not up to the ancient standard set by Amiens and Chartres and then on your way home remark that it was a great visit but once was enough.

For all that there is no point to choose a location that has great tourist appeal but has poor logistics for a meeting room. Orléans is fine for visitors, it is reasonably priced and it is easy to get to by train so it definitely should be considered if the plan is a secondary city not too far from Paris.

By the way, I personally much prefer Orléans to Tours (farther away, even bigger and full of bars in the medieval quarter catering to rowdy young people in the evening) or Le Mans (too far away), or, to the East, Reims, which has an ancient cathedral but which was leveled in WWI, including massive damage to the cathedral and so what you see in Reims is basically 1920's / 30's rebuilding. When the cathedral in Reims was set on fire by shelling in WWI the lead-tiled roof melted, sending molten streams of lead issuing from the mouths of the gargoyle downspouts put there to handle rain. It was truly a scene from the Inferno.

I don't know about trying to leverage a university for meeting space. It will probably be easier just to pick a hotel with a meeting room / hall. My guess is that this user meeting might end up being a relatively compact, elite group so probably a room where 40 or so people would fit would be fine. How that plays out will probably guide the choice of location.

BerndD

162 post(s)
#31-Oct-16 15:29

How about Dublin?

It's in Europe and has a Ryan Air hub. So if you can get to

Easy to get to from London, Frankfurt and other places in Europe.

Also New York - Dublin - New York for less than $500 in April 2017 for example.


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Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#31-Oct-16 18:31

How about Dublin?

A great place for sure if you are an American or EU national. Unfortunately, Ireland does not accept either Schengen or UK visas, which is what everyone who is not an American or EU national usually gets.

It is one of those deals where there is a big asymmetry in hassle/reward. Schengen visas are low cost, they are easy to get, the entire process from start to finish takes only a few days and you get over 30 countries. Irish visas are a major hassle, they take eight weeks and you get one country.

By teaming up, the Schengen zone countries have been able to put visa centers in many secondary cities. That makes it easy for people who don't live near national capitals or other cities big enough for a consulate to swing by a local center and get a visa. No need to travel to the embassy or consulate.

Once you get a Schengen visa issued by any of the Schengen countries it is good in all of them, plus a bunch more that honor Schengen visas. They are very quick to issue multi-year, multiple entry visas so you can come and go as you please over a period of years.

Countries in the Schengen Zone: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland, plus territories like the Azores, Madeira, and the Canary Islands.

Not in the zone but accept Schengen visas: Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia, Cyprus, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia and Serbia.

That's a lot of "bang for the buck" for a quick visit to a local center and a wait of a few days and you only need to do that every few years.

Compare that to what Ireland asks: eight weeks of processing time, you have to visit the Irish embassy or consulate in person (a long, costly trip) and for all that hassle you only get one country. I think the worst of it is that I know few people who are willing to give up their passport for the two months of processing time.

I suppose that is why everybody has a multi-year, multiple-entry Schengen Visa but I don't think I know anybody who has a visa for Ireland. It's not like people have anything against Ireland, it's just that if they are going to pick a travel spot it may as well be one where the paperwork is easy and you automatically get 30 other countries as well. And then once you are in that pipeline it is a lot easier to go to a country where you are already good to go.

For those reasons I would suggest one of the Schengen countries. No need for visa hassles when there are so many places to choose from with fewer visa issues.

BerndD

162 post(s)
#01-Nov-16 21:10

Good point, Dimitri. Just learned something new.

Well, we could do Stuttgart, Germany then.

For that location I would have staff that could help organizing.

France would work for me as well, but then somebody else would need to chip in with organizing.

What would be the best date for a user meeting?

I assume everybody attending would like to meet Manifold staff to chat about their new products.

Therefore you guys know best when you are available and I leave it up to you to suggest a date for the user meeting.


Organizations that want to adapt to CHANGE are using products that can adapt.

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tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#01-Nov-16 22:18

For [Stuttgart] I would have staff that could help organizing.

That's huge.

What would be the best date for a user meeting?

Dimitri suggested the first week of May (in Chartres). Before that I wondered about Easter, April 15 to 17. You suggested Spring.

May 1 2017 is a Monday. Is the May Day public holiday itself in or out? In either case, the long weekend (in France, Germany, Russia ...) might make travel a bit easier.

Maybe a good way to come at it would be this: is there anyone who would definitely want to be at a Manifold user group meeting in Spring 2017 in France or Germany, but who can't make May 1/2 to May 4/5?

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#02-Nov-16 13:45

With us, the big holidays in the beginning of May are times when you know people will have some free time to travel. That's a plus and a minus.

On the one hand there is some free time but on the other hand people who already have spent far too much time at work will not leave their spouses during a rare break. But we can work with that.

My strategy for dealing with that would be to turn a negative into a positive by choosing a place spouses want to visit, where the spouse will be happy to have some free time while their partner attends a nearby meeting for a day or so. If the meeting is close enough you can see each other in the morning and in the evening that day anyway.

That is one reason I suggested a place near Paris as no spouse will complain if you suggest spending the May holidays together in France, but the spouse will have to spend a day shopping in Paris while you attend a meeting. They'll be eager to go and thrilled to get in some shopping without dragging the husband around.

In contrast, I can't see spouses being so happy about visiting Stuttgart so their partner can attend a Manifold meeting.

There is also the matter that if you are going to travel a long way, why not visit a place where what you see is original and not a reconstruction? Stuttgart is industrious and merits respect, without doubt, but it was absolutely flattened in WWII so what you see there today is all new, very little of it more than about 60 years old.

BerndD

162 post(s)
#02-Nov-16 14:09

@Dimitri Who cares about shopping when the Germans have the best beer?

Just talked to my people and we would be fine with France, Vienna or Belgrad.

Our preferred time frame would be from 4/27 to 5/19.

If you can avoid May, 1st, that's a plus!


Organizations that want to adapt to CHANGE are using products that can adapt.

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Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#02-Nov-16 16:35

Agreed both on May 1 *and* the beer. :-) I once lived near Munich for a couple of years and after that, well... yes, Czech beer is good, very good, as are many other places, but still... you get spoiled. There is no place like Germany when it comes to beer.

My wife, by the way, likes Stuttgart. She has relatives there she would like to visit so we were planning a trip sometimes in 2017. It's an easy drive from France through beautiful country with Strasbourg on the way, with its spectacular, rose-colored Gothic cathedral, canals and medieval old town, only about 100 km from Stuttgart.

antoniocarlos

609 post(s)
#02-Nov-16 19:56

I know it is very early but consider remote access (video conference of some sort) or at at least recording some of the activities or presentations.


How soon?

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#02-Nov-16 20:09

Maybe only for non-NDA sessions?

BerndD

162 post(s)
#04-Nov-16 00:23

@Dimitri And now envision that trip on a sunny, blue/white sky day in May. Probably priceless.


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tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#04-Nov-16 01:09

I rather think via Besançon though...

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#04-Nov-16 08:25

Lots to like in Besançon for sure.

I've put out feelers, by the way, to see what people had in mind for their free time in May. For those who planned on travel the usual suspects are at the top of the lists: Italy, Spain, France, India, etc., but Stuttgart somehow does not seem to appeal. I think we'll have to amp up the choice a bit to be closer to a major draw.

BerndD

162 post(s)
#04-Nov-16 20:25

Well, there can't be enough user meetings to get to see all these wonderful places.

Since potential attendees would certainly want to meet Manifold staff in the first place I suggest that Manifold Software Limited should have the honor to pick two optional places and a date and have a little survey afterwords to figure out which of the two works best for all of us. If there is not enough feedback - don't hold a meeting.

However, we do not want to push you guys into the organization/participation of a user meeting.

Opening the post was just about getting some sense of whether people are interested in this or not. I've got the feeling that an official Manifold user meeting would draw much more people than an unofficial gathering of regular Manifold users. Not saying that there isn't plenty of stuff out there that would be worth sharing with each other in person.


Organizations that want to adapt to CHANGE are using products that can adapt.

www.yeymaps.io

Dimitri


7,413 post(s)
#05-Nov-16 11:58

There are many great possibilities.

Manifold must focus all effort on the product so it is not in the cards for the company to organize a user meeting. But there is no reason users interested in a meeting could not organize one.

Given a compatible choice of time and place it could be possible for Manifold staff to attend despite their commitments to critical path tasks. What helps:

* Take advantage of free time during holidays.

* Choose a location where the spouses want to go, so you can honestly leverage that free time.

* Pick a country with easy visa access.

I think whatever the meeting it is also wise to pick a location that is a) easy to get to, b) inexpensive to get to, c) inexpensive to stay, and d) everyone wants to visit. You get more people that way.

My recommendation was (and still is) a secondary town close to Paris, because experience shows that is one of the balance points that fits the above criteria.

We've done a lot of meetings in or near Paris in the last few years and the location has worked out very well. In the long term Paris or a suburb probably will become Manifold's western European base. It's definitely been better than the other places we have used (London, Munich, Frankfurt, Prague, Milan, Rome, Sofia, Istanbul, Switzerland...).

For all that, anywhere in Europe is a long way for people in the US/Canada or for people from Oz or our Kiwi friends. So I can see how people in those regions might prefer a regional meeting in the US or in Australia or New Zealand.

artlembo


3,400 post(s)
#05-Nov-16 13:31

I am real keen on Scotland - families might chomp at the bit to get there. I may have a contact who could organize it.

cab76 post(s)
#09-Nov-16 01:44

In the Philippines?

tjhb
10,094 post(s)
#07-Nov-16 00:39

... I suggest that Manifold Software Limited should have the honor to pick two optional places and a date and have a little survey afterwards to figure out which of the two works best for all of us. If there is not enough feedback - don't hold a meeting.

Quite right... but Manifold has already done this, in the form of Dimitri's diplomatic and repeated suggestion of Chartres (if that works, else a town very close by). It would be up to us to organise it, but evidently that is the best shot for company attendance.

I'm sending you an email Bernd.

firsttube


1,439 post(s)
#02-Nov-16 13:58

Wonder if there could be two user meetings, one in North America, one in Europe?


"The blessing in life is finding the torture you are comfortable with." - Jerry Seinfeld, 6/26/2013

BerndD

162 post(s)
#02-Nov-16 14:12

We would have to have the meeting with Manifold staff attending first and be very specific about what can be reported at the US meeting and what has to be kept under NDA.


Organizations that want to adapt to CHANGE are using products that can adapt.

www.yeymaps.io

BerndD

162 post(s)
#27-Feb-17 19:40

Hey Guys,

Maybe some of you were wondering if there will be a user meeting this spring or not.

The short answer is no.

After weighing in all pros and cons, the organizing group decided to focus on a fall meeting instead.

Chartres in France will still be likely to be the location.


Organizations that want to adapt to CHANGE are using products that can adapt.

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